Sperm quality as a cause, DNA fragmentation test

Nini · March 30, 2024 at 11:19 PM

Hello everyone,

Do any of you have experience of failure to conceive being due to sperm quality?

My husband had 25 million sperm/ml in the 2019 spermiogram, good motility and the fertilization rate with EZS was very good (once 5 out of 6 eggs fertilized, but unfortunately no blastocyst, and once 5 out of 5 fertilized, 2 blastocysts, 1 of which was a child). When sperm was released again for a sibling in 2023, there were only 500,000 sperm/ml and only moderate motility, only one of 3 eggs fertilized, 1 blastocyst, no implantation.

We suspect the cause is a medication for depression, a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, which my husband has been taking since 2020. The package leaflet also says "may impair fertility". The first measure was therefore for my husband to stop taking the medication (despite all the side effects that this entails...).

Our clinic recommended that we have a DNA fragmentation test (DFI) carried out on the sperm. However, this is only offered in very few laboratories/clinics in Germany and costs several hundred euros. Do any of you have experience with this?

And do you have any tips on what men can do to improve their sperm quality (vitamins, antioxidants, etc.)?

Conby · March 31, 2024 at 9:49 AM

Hello dear Nini,

Have a look at Pimp my sperm. We did that back then and the SG in Spain was actually quite good with only slight deviations in the normal form. The fragmentation test was also just on the borderline of not being optimal. The clinic recommended turmeric, as this is a powerful antioxidant. So strong, in fact, that you can take it on its own at a time, away from medication and other vitamin pills.

All the best for you.

Nini · April 2, 2024 at 11:37 AM

Hello dear Conby,

Thank you very much for the tip with the "Pimp my Sperm"! It's very helpful to have such a tried and tested "recipe" for the supplements that you can simply follow. And turmeric sounds good too. Do you remember what the dosage was and whether it was fermented or somehow modified curcuma or "normal" curcuma?

Where did you do the DNA fragmentation test?

Conby · April 3, 2024 at 8:12 AM

Hello Nini,

The fragmentation test was carried out by the Kiwu Clinic in Spain. They tend to do this more often with limited SG.

We ordered the turmeric as capsules from the big A... . My husband had to take 2 a day. But, as I said, always at intervals with the other supplements. It was quite a task to take so many pills a day you should take it for at least 3 months before the fertilization of the EZ took place.

Oh, the turmeric was "normal", just mixed with black pepper, as this is supposed to increase bioavailability.

Oskar · April 3, 2024 at 3:33 PM

Hello everyone,

What is the consequence if the DNA fragmentation test is abnormal?

Best regards!

Oskar

Conby · April 3, 2024 at 7:18 PM

Hi Oskar, in our case, an extra device called Chip fertile was used to improve the selection of suitable sperm. Of course, this cost extra.

Nini · April 4, 2024 at 6:05 PM

Conby Thanks for the info!

Oskar That's actually a good question that I should ask my Kiwi clinic again. Thanks for your question! I have no idea whether they also use the Fertile Chip or perhaps have other selection methods for choosing the best sperm. In any case, it would be stupid to spend a lot of money and effort on the DNA fragmentation test if it would have no effect on further treatment. Except perhaps that we have to wait longer for the next treatment because they hope that the sperm quality will improve again over time. But I don't really want to wait any longer!

Nini · April 16, 2024 at 12:24 PM

Conby and anyone else who has experience with "Pimp my Sperm": Did your husbands have any side effects from all the supplements? My husband had severe diarrhea at the beginning. He then stopped taking the magnesium and things got better after that. But he still gets sick every time he has to swallow these sometimes huge capsules with carnitine and arginine. Is it really all that healthy...?

And one more question: Did you have the spermiogram done by a urologist or at a Kiwi clinic where you live, or only at your Kiwi clinic abroad, or did you do such quick tests at home (Exseed or something)?

Fliege · April 16, 2024 at 1:36 PM

We don't have any experience with Pimp my Sperm, but I took supplements for skin and hair for a while and they made me sick too.

I've read that sometimes it's the carrier substances.

Coco_F · April 16, 2024 at 5:37 PM

Nini, if your husband has diarrhea, it may actually be due to too much magnesium. I wouldn't cut it out completely, just reduce it. I took the L-arginine capsules to build up the mucous membrane. They are really huge. By the way, if you want to reduce the number of fragmented sperm, you should ejaculate 3 hours before releasing sperm. I got this from a fertility specialist. At least that's what we did around ovulation time before we had intercourse. It didn't get me pregnant with my old eggs, but we knew that my husband had fragmentation. We also used chipfertile for the sperm that fertilized the donor eggs.

Nini · April 16, 2024 at 11:27 PM

Coco_F Thanks for your experience and the tip about 3 hours beforehand, I'll have to ask our clinic about that. Normally it's always 2-5 days abstinence beforehand. Where did you have the DNA fragmentation test done?

Coco_F · April 17, 2024 at 7:43 PM

Nini yes, that is actually a contradiction with being abstinent and 3 hours beforehand. We didn't know that at the time my husband had his spermiogram. I'm curious what the clinic will say. We had the fragmentation test done at the Clínica Tambre.

Nini · April 20, 2024 at 12:34 AM

I have now asked our clinic again what the consequences of a bad fragmentation result would be. The answer: none, except that they would then recommend waiting a few months longer. However, as we don't want to wait any longer, we will probably forego the test. We will then have a new spermiogram at the beginning of June and if that is ok, they will try to find a donor for us so that we can start the next attempt this summer.

Lilie1710 · April 20, 2024 at 6:50 AM

So what is the test for if it's just to wait? I don't quite understand.

We only have 4 fertilized eggs left of the 7 after day 3. I'm getting a bit nervous now. I would have expected 5 with such a yield. On Monday we'll find out how many they were able to freeze. My own eggs never looked right, but they fertilized, out of 5 mature ones, 4 were also frozen in the best attempt last year. I really thought that a young donor would produce more.

C+C_Schmid · April 20, 2024 at 3:34 PM Official Post

Nini

Lilie1710

On Monday we will publish an article by Dr. Hlinka, Clayo-Clinic in Prague on the subject of "DNA fragmentation of sperm", take a look at it, it may help you.

LÖG

Claudia

Fliege · April 21, 2024 at 7:34 PM

I had 12 ECs, 10 of which were fertilized. Everyone was totally euphoric and said that there was a lot left over....

Only 3 blastos remained. One hatching 5AA and two with no good morphology (2BB, 2CB).

I was very disappointed about that.

But it worked on the first attempt and my mouse is lying here next to me 😍

There are now 2 more chances for a sibling... how good are they with the values.... 🤷🏼‍♀️ Has anyone had success with 2BB or even 2CB or knows anything about grading?

Unfortunately I don't even know if they were frozen individually. Wouldn't do a DET.

Lilie1710 · April 22, 2024 at 7:28 AM

Fliege For me it is relieving to hear that the yield is probably normal. Today we will find out how much could really be frozen and perhaps also the quality.

Conby · April 22, 2024 at 1:58 PM

Dear Lilie1710, this is actually a normal yield. We had 7 ECs, 4 of which fertilized and in the end there were 3 blastos, but one day 6 blasto. I know from ICSIS here in Germany that the yield is often even worse, or is also within this range. It is said that 1 to 2 blastos develop from 3 to 5 fertilized eggs

MiriKie23 · April 28, 2024 at 4:49 PM

Hi Fliege

We also had 13 ECs and it was said that there would be lots of blastos. In the end it was a shock, although my husband had a great spermiogram (the doctor said donor quality), after six days there was only one blasto left, and it also took six days to mature into a blasto. The quality was BB, so I didn't have high hopes. But it worked straight away, I am currently pregnant with exactly this blasto (8+4) and so far the little one has developed absolutely on time. I currently only have problems with a large hematoma, but that has nothing to do with the baby.

So, even blastos with quality B are good blastos

Kind regards